I am just going to give you an overview of what this company is about so that you do not make the same mistake as I did. There have been many before who have documented similar experiences so I will be citing them throughout this post.
First, I will tell you what they will be telling you to try to rope you in.
PART ONE: The Ad.....
By this time you probably saw an ad in Monster or Careerbuilder or another of the myriad of job posting sites and found something that looks like this:
KICK-START A CAREER: advertising, marketing, & management!
CHILD SAFETY ENTERPRISES, INC. was founded with a vision of providing unparallel results to clients in the non-profit sector as well as sports and entertainment, while helping its people achieve their career ambitions. These two goals complemented each other fully.
We are currently filling 10 positions within our training program in our DEER PARK office. People will be trained in the following areas while advancing:
* promotional sales
* event marketing
* customer service & personnel
* client management
All positions are entry level and include performance based advancement. In addition to full time, we also offer part time positions and internships.
The two most important qualities that we are looking for in people are the two things that we can't teach you:
Our ideal candidate is an outgoing, positive person with a fresh perspective; someone who is eager to be a leader of people and who chooses to lead by example.
Since we are willing to train from the ground up, these positions are perfect for recent grads (all majors welcome) and those eager to get their foot in the door in a new career. - Ad from Monster.com
-now I have to say that one measure of improvement has been that they added the term "sales" into the advertisement. This word is really the only thing that matters here. Everything else is fluff/lies/semantics.
"event marketing" - is another way of saying 'promotional sales'
"customer service and personnel" - no job like this offered at this company
"client management" - a sly way of saying that in order to make sales you have to 'manage' your 'clients'; again, no such position offered here.
There are no 'internships,' their version of internship is the same as 'part-time employee'
"performance based advancement" - is a sly way of hiding COMMISSION- as this is a 100% pay by commision job.
Okay now that that's all cleared up, Let's see what kind of applicants they are looking for:
People from all backgrounds seeking part time or full-time opportunities in the following areas are encouraged to inquire about our program: sales, customer service, part time, manager, accounting, marketing, clerical, management, computer, engineer, human resources, drivers, security, administrative assistants, purchasing,, medical, administrative, receptionist, retail, maintenance, warehouse, entry level, education, finance, director, telecommunications, real estate, engineering, insurance, data entry, project managers, information technology, part time, printing, technician, legal, automotive, teacher, winter, banking, analyst, nursing, restaurant, controller, network, public relations, environmental, nurse, design, quality, safety, secretary, office, assistant, hotel, accountant, vice president, medical assistant, transportation, supervisor, general, advertising, writer, social services, java, all, graphic, mba, holiday, office manager, communications, sales manager, admin, mortgage, social workers, training, cms, attorney, research, payroll, oracle, executive assistant, paralegal, courier post, drivers, pharmaceutical,, operations, president, web, Rn, law enforcement, autocad, health care, executive, food, production, chef, cad, project management, tax, auto, editor, hospitality, hvac, pharmaceutical sales, it,, collections, Spanish,, unix, art, buyer, facilities, professional, mechanical, bartender, help desk, travel, logistics, call center, truck drivers, inventory, financial analyst, computers, pharmacist, police, teaching, counselor, chemist, plant manager, photography, bookkeeper, medical sales, electrical engineer, health, trader, bilingual, business analyst, recruiter, cfo, accounts payable, sports,, cashier, financial, music, social worker, publishing, project, support, business development, lpn, welder, clerk, technical, .quality assurance, government, distribution, secretarial, sales management, mental health, nanny, child care, registered nurse, cna, Japanese, technical support, administration, property manager, cook, shipping, pharmacy, coordinator, entertainment.
Okay, basically they will take anyone and everyone. They even add ethnicities/races in the search criteria, so someone who is Japanese and looking for a job might come across this ad in a search. And Java??? There is NO computer programming involved in this job. It is laughable if they ask you or seem excited to hear you have computer skills...
if this doesn't answer all of your questions and make up your mind, read on.......
PART TWO: The phone call/email.....
CongratulationsThis is an old email, I don't know what updates they made to it, but it is strewn with "white lies." They are not trying to fill 5 openings, or 10, or 20, or 100 for that matter. This is a company that has an extremely high rate of employee turnover, and must be in a constant state of recruitment to keep itself going, as people are quitting every single day. You will never see these ads go away because they 'finally filled enough positions,' these ads are perpetual.
After reviewing your resume, we were impressed with your background and
you are a candidate that we have selected for a preliminary interview.
At this stage of the interview process, we would like to have you meet
face to face with someone from our management team to explain more
about our company and the positions currently available. Child Safety
Inc. and Associates, with over 18 years of experience, located in is New York’s Leader in Child Safety Promotions for non-profit
organizations. We represent such clients as Drug Abuse Resistance
Education (D.A.R.E.), United Care USA, and U.S. Marine Corp. Reserve
Toys for Tots Program. The child safety literature, the fingerprinting
program, and our medical ID cards that we offer free to the community
makes us unique in our endeavor to make the world a safer place and
help out organizations in need.
Our 100% promotion from within philosophy offers a diversity of career
opportunities and growth potential. We are looking to fill 5 openings
in our management-training program, 2 customer service positions, and
one receptionist/administrator position. Hands on training will
include safety event- promotions, public relations, customer-service
and management skills. We are looking for hard working individuals who
like to deal with people and are looking for a rewarding career
Contact Vicky at to set up a preliminary interview!
Human Resources Manager
They purport it as a "management training program," what it really is is a clever version of your run-of-the-mill pyramid scheme. Basically it starts out as a flat-out sales position, 100% commission-based. If you become a 'leader' you can now develop people under you and after a certain number stick around for a certain time you get a modest percentage of their earnings. If you build and maintain an 'all-star' team you might make it to asst. mgr, where 80% of your time you will still be selling and the other 20% you will be learning about how to run the business in the office for a stipend set by the manager/owner - usually equivalent to how valuable you are as a sales asset. And you get increased overrides on your team members, and can still develop more members. If you are really good, you might make it to management and run your own office, but the % of people who make it to this level is a very narrow margin, as the road is riddled with stumbling blocks. This is by no means an easy task to overcome. In a typical management training program, they narrow down applicants based on experience and criteria, then they show you the ropes, you complete your training and become manager. What this job does is thrives on people's dreams that they can manage their own buisiness. They actually make you want to become a manager, even if you don't. They sell everybody the same rap as to how 'anyone' can make it and manage a "million dollar company." This defies logic, in reality there cannot be too many chiefs or [sales] territories will get drained and everyone will be stepping on toes.
PART THREE: The Interview(s)
If they got you by phone or email to come to a first interview, it is because they have been very vague in their explanation of the position and somehow piqued your curiosity. They will do the same thing in the first interview, then they will offer you to come in for a 2nd interview - FOR A FULL UNPAID DAY!!! This guy at scams.com outlined the 2nd interview (a.k.a. Day of observation or Day of O) so I'll just post it here:
I said that I was going to write a walkthrough of a typical day of observation, so here it is from the point of views of both the interviewee and the interviewer.
Typical "Day of O." in detail: Part I
Points of view:
- You come in after your preliminary interview, expecting to observe how the company works for a day. You and whoever else is being "interviewed" that day all sit in chairs in front of a tv. screen. You hear loud screaming and what sounds like chanting from another room while you watch a video about the company (quantum, or whichever other company uses this method). The video has alot of success stories and testimonials about how anyone can make it in this business if they put the time and effort into it. Specific to quantum, they'll add in something about how it raises money for charities in there, in attempt to add a point of legitmacy to the whole thing.
1b) Trainer (leader)
- Without going into the details of the everyday "atmosphere" of the office (morning meetings, rapid-fire, e.t.c) if you are "training" today (normally you only get this so-called privilege if you have sold alot of stuff the day before) you gather around as the owner/asst mgr. doles out which leader gets which applicant. These matches are carefully made by the manager, so as to promote the highest probability of retention. For example, they wouldn't send out a reserved law-school student with "party-joe" because the prospective hire might jump ship, seeing this whole thing as a big joke. He would be sent
out with someone who comes across as professional, so as to give the company a more viable image. Conversely, a vivacious young sorority-girl wouldn't be sent out with the reserved "middle-aged mike," otherwise she might get bored and not be "locked-in" by the "fun" image that "party-joe" would send across to her.
- You then wait your turn until the manager calls you into his office. When he does, he shuts the door and briefs you on your "day of o." He'll tell you only a couple of bullet-points, just so you get a general idea of what techniques you are going to use. More often than not, your manager will tell you what technique(s) you should use to lock 'em in.
An example of this would be, "she comes from a charity background so stress the cause." Or, "he's only looking for a summer job so stress the fun." Or, "he's a sharp guy so hit him with alot of 'facts' about the company and stress the opportunity." You have about 10-15 seconds of this, and then the manager opens the door and calls in the next victim.
- You enter the room and the manager introduces you to the person who you are going out with today. The manager says something like, "this is our top producer" or "this is one of our top leaders, today he/she is taking some time out of his/her busy schedule to show you how the business works."
* I found this really funny, especially since it worked on me. This technique does work, and it sticks in the back of the applicant's head and makes them feel like they are special or different from the other interviewees to have been chosen to be matched with the "top-gun" of the office (which turns out to be complete bs, as you'll see if you stay awhile). It is all psychological, that is what this business is. A big head-game from top to bottom. Class, welcome to Manipulation 101.
2b) Trainer (leader)
- You greet your prospective hire, and out the door you go. You make sure he exits ahead of you. Also, when you get outside you ask him where he's parked and then request that he move his car to a different spot. These measures establish that you as a leader are beginning to take control (you're making the person do what you want them to do, which is what manipulation is all about). You then proceed to get into your car with the applicant and
begin to drive to your "event," which is where you will set up your table and hawk your wares.
- You enter the car and it is then that what you are really going to be doing today starts to be explained. The interviewer tells you a bit about the company, what they do, the fact that you'll be standing outside of some store with some kids toys and branded t-shirts and other stuff with the DARE logo on them. You will not be selling anything today, you are just here to observe, put your "best foot forward," show your "people skills," or something of the like.
* Usually before this moment you have a very vague picture of what the day will be like. You've heard things like "events," fundraising," "spreading awareness," but no one has informed you that you will be slinging crap off of a table in front of Wal-Mart, until this point. This is all planned, as getting someone locked-in is a slow process which requires careful use of manipulation on various levels.
* At this point the person is either going to feel one of 3 ways (non-exclusive list):
1-What the hell is this? Take me to my car please!
2-This is not what I thought it was going to be. I want to leave, but I'll stay just to be nice/give them a chance/because I agreed to the interview. (indifferent/skeptic type)
3-Sure, I'll go along with it. (curious/adventurous type)
3b) Trainer (leader)
- Based on what angle you should be coming from, you try to build a rapport with the person and get them excited about the day. The key is to keep control over the conversation. If you lose control, you best get it back quick or else you can kiss your day of o. goodbye, as they won't be back the next day. Here are some of the things you will be taught to say to different types of people:
For those who want a summer job:
"This is a job where you can have fun and make money"
"This looks good on a resume"
"This is kind of like a paid internship where you'll learn basic sales and marketing and people skills"
"At the end of the summer, you'll get a letter of recognition from DARE"
For the "sharp" people: "Event-based marketing has been proven to be the best way for known companies to get their name into the hands of the public, and for less known companies to gain exposure"
"We work with alot of fortune 500 clients like Disney, pixar, vivitar, nascar, e.t.c." ~this is called 'legitimizing direct sales'
For the skeptical: "So and so used to clean carpets for a living. Now he makes six-figures and drives a brand-new escalade"
"You don't need an education to be successful
* Manipulation and deception does not equal people skills in my book. There are many more things to go on this list, these are just a few examples.
Typical "Day of O." in detail: Part II
- If you're still here you get to the "event," watch the leader set up his table, and begin to observe him as he tries to sell people items purporting to be helping a charity. You've been told that there is going to be a quiz at the end of the day, and that you will be told the answers, but let's see if you can figure them out on your own first. You are given a small task, if necessary, like greeting people or handing out pamphlets.
* The quiz will include these key things (and doesn't mean anything, but is meant to further establish control)
1-The Law of Averages
* States that out of a hundred people who approach the table, 70% will say no and should be let go, 20% will say yes, and 10% will be "on the fence," where you have to use your personality and manipulation techniques to get them to buy.
2-The 5 Steps: Introduction, Short-story, Merch-Contact(presentation), Close and Rehash.
* Intro - The obvious; "Hello, how are you today?"
* S.S. - What you're doing, Why you're here; "we're helping the kids with the DARE program..."
* M.C. - Get the product in their hands; This is a psychological trick that many merchants use. It creates a sense of ownership. I find this very amusing when people try to do this to me in the malls!
* Close - Close the sale; "how many do you want today?" "what size, XL or L?" "would you like the red or the blue?" "will that be Cash, check or charge?
* Rehash - Remember Everyone Has A Sale Hidden; "Rehash doubles your cash"; Basically once you got 'em, hit 'em up for more money.
3-The 8(or 10) great work habits: in no particular order
* Be Positive, Be prepared, Be on time, Have a great attitude, Work your territory correctly, Maintain your attitude, Always work a full(8hr, but really comes out to about 10-12hrs) day, Take control, Know what you're doing & why you're here
*I will not go in-depth with these, just check the wolfram link I posted a while ago.
4b) Trainer (leader)
- You want to maintain a balance of focus on your applicant and the people going into the store because you want to make money while and at the same time close a deal for perhaps someone who will make you money in the future. This is where the pyramid begins for you, but only if you can build and maintain it. You must keep your day of o. entertained, so that they are not left alone to their thoughts, which might dissuade them from getting involved
with this. You must also challenge them by having them try to figure out the 5-steps, e.t.c. You will entertain any questions they have, but make sure you don't give everything away or you might lose them in an instant. I have said it before, but some of the dodgy/deceptive replies you will be taught to use are:
Q:"so are there benefits here?"
A:"yeah I think we just got a new benefits program that kicks in after 90 days"
Q:"so do you get paid on commission?"
A:"Those questions will be answered at the final interview, should you make it to it"
Q:"So how long does it usually take to become a manager"
A:"Generally it takes about 8-12 weeks, but this may vary depending on the person."
* You use your FUGI factors, which are:
Fear of Loss - If they're really excited about getting the job, make them think that they might not get it.
sense of Urgency - If they are talking about 2 weeks notice, let them know that they should make a decision soon, immediately is preferable, because these "positions" get filled fast.
Greed factor - Let them know how much money can be made by doing this, and that they wouldn't be selling off of a table for a very long time at all.
Indifference - If they show skepticism, be indifferent. Show them that you believe it works and it doesn't matter if they believe it or not, because 'it really works.' If you try too hard to sell the business to them, you will come off as fake.
Above all else, to succeed at retaining the applicant, you must A) make a decent amount of sales that day, and B) keep your attitude peachy the whole day.
- So you made it through the day. On the car ride back, you are asked to recite what is going to be on the test, to make sure you will pass it. The interviewer tells you that he can make his recommendation for you, but ultimately it is the boss's decision on whether or not you get hired.
* This is a crock. If the leader wants you on his team, he'll hire you. Otherwise he'll tell the 'boss' to let you go by giving you an excuse like "the position has been filled already," you usually have to either be a mope or especially dumb for this to happen to you.
For the most part anyone will be hired as long as they have an average level of motivation and social aptitude.
5b) Trainer (leader)
- You've got a pretty good sense of what your day of o. was like. At this point you usually know if they want the job (but not always). You also know whether or not you want them on your team (can they talk correctly? did they seem interested enough?). You have to fear of loss them. You can't let it be known that they're a "shoe-in" for the job. There has to be some control there still. You tell them that the odds are only one or two people will be hired today, you say that you'll give your recommendation to the boss, you wish them luck and seat them back down inside the office to fill out the test (if they don't say that they're going home before that!)
- You hand in the test, you wait to be called in to have your "final interview" with the boss. This is a one-on-one interview, and is usually very brief. The manager asks you how your day went, if you have any questions, and gives you a tale of b.s. like the high recommendation you got, e.t.c. He will then offer you the position. If you accept, then you will come in tomorrow at 8am.
* If payment is discussed, the fact that it is 100% commission will not be said.
6b) Trainer (leader)
- You know your day of o. will be hired but you hope that he will take the job. You've done all you can, it is now up to the manager to make sure that they get locked in. If the applicant accepts, you share in his excitement (and get him more excited). You follow him out to his car, tell him to come in at 8am the next day and to bring a notebook. Later in the evening, usually around 9pm, you will give him a "rehash phone-call," to make sure he is
still excited about the day. If you want you can also invite him for breakfast/coffee before work.
This is a typical day of o. in summary. Like I said in previous posts, they have to put on a show to MAKE you want the job, because nobody wants to do this. If I would have known from the get-go that the job was full commission, that the "program" would take alot longer than 8-12 weeks, and that anybody and their mother can get hired, I would have never even went to
the interview. Like I said it is a slow "reeling in process."They let out their line by using the dummy bait found in their ads (Cross-training, entry-level to management, etc). Then they slowly try to pull you in slowly once you're hooked. If they pull too hard, the line will snap. If they don't pull enough, you will struggle and break free. And many "fish" will get away no matter how hard they try to catch them. To them, recruiting has its own law of averages. It is basic math. If you try the same thing on a hundred people, some of them are likely to stick around. It is my hope that this thread will help to decrease their L.O.A. a hundred-fold.
*The above two posts are from a first-hand account, my own
Now if you're still not satisfied, you can go to one of these websites for more information:
http://wolfram.org/scam/ds_max/index.html - Describes this type of business.
http://groups.msn.com/DSMAXTheAftermath/_whatsnew.msnw - A community group for those affected by this type of company.
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=10843&page=2&pp=40 - The thread discussing this company.
I hope you've read this blog before agreeing to an interview so that you can make an educated decision. Spread the word and link to this blog if it has helped you in any way.